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Episode 54 – Christmas Icons

Bobby and Jordan wish you all a Merry Christmas! In this episode they discuss favorite Christmas movies along with the obligatory run-down of current events, but gladly ending in a discussion of important Christmas symbolism that has been long forgotten in the West.

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Referenced in this Podcast



  1. Whitaker
    Whitaker December 24, 2021

    If you haven’t had egg nog with rum, you’re missing out on the complete experience. I just add it to the egg nog I make after it’s cold. Very good, and I think the egg milk and cream deaden the alcohol so I don’t get buzzed.

    Scrooged was a popular movie with my family as I grew up.
    “Have you tried staples?”
    “Why don’t you go out and get a job and buy a choo choo?”

  2. Pepé Le Pew
    Pepé Le Pew December 28, 2021

    Prediction for 2022…Democrat control States and at a Federal level (i.e.. executive branch’s presidential mandates) will ease their COVID-19 restrictions because it is an election year to help out Democrats running for re-election in Congress. The excuse will be be that they’re able “to predict” the virus behavior due to science.
    About Mary the mother of Jesus…if you mentioned what you mentioned about Mary (as I understood it or heard it) being a personage of a higher state pre-mortally…then are you saying that at the physically states in which we were, were we having having (creating) offspring’s of non-carnage nature? Correct me if I misunderstood (offline of course).
    I can understand the legal and social earthly reasons of the time in which Mary needed to be married to Joseph without having coitus after the birth of Jesus. i.e. more brothers and sisters with Joseph. May be Joseph had another wives (not unusual then or now in that region of the world) that created brothers and sisters for Jesus. We don’t have details because of corrupted scriptures or purposely omitted stories in the bible. However, how do we explain (in her case) her eternal status in regards of Temple marriage as for her to be able to obtain the highest state (degree) of glory? (can be addressed offline when we meet again).
    Fascinating perspective gents! Still it is not a make or break deal of the what is of utmost importance….the events leading to the birth of Christ! Cheers 🙂

    • Jordan
      Jordan December 28, 2021

      Joseph and Mary were not married. The concern only comes up because Mary was with child. Joseph was much older. He clearly had another wife. See the infancy Gospel for context.

      And the priest said to Joseph, Thou hast been chosen by lot to take into thy keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl. I am afraid lest I become a laughing-stock to the sons of Israel.

      In Luke (KJV) a lot of this hinges on the word translated as betrothed “emnesteumene.” This can also mean “Promised one, or THE promised one.” This is Mary to Joseph… “a ward, someone to be protected.” But remember the translations were changed. The context of the Infancy Gospel of James changes everything. It gives the context. The word for wife, meaning “woman” literally, is gune/gunaiki (dative). Some of the texts appear to say she was his promised woman. Others just say promised. So we need the context of the Protoevangelium.

      Additionally we have the further context of the Book of Mormon and comparative ancient myth describing the forgotten roles of women, and THE Woman. Understanding that there are both intentional and unintentional errors in the translation and transmission of the texts, we need to look deeper, read between the lines and explore other texts for further context.

      You must unlearn what you have learned. If you have not surmised from my comments, correlated Sunday School teachings, especially about the plan of salvation, are often not quite on target. So there is no need to concoct rationale for her having had other kids. You seem to still be operating with the rationale that Mary needed “to obtain the highest state (degree) of glory” via “temple marriage.” Again. There is much to unlearn. Perhaps we should do a podcast on Mr. Bruno’s differences of opinion that relate here. I’m not sure if Mr. Fludd or some of the listeners would be able to stomach the discussion. Please weigh in listeners? Challenging deeply held beliefs often causes concern.

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